Planning Bo= ard Meeting
03/19/09
PLANNING BOARD PRESENT: Linda Hardesty, Sherri Dill, F= rank Kearney and Marty Jackson
STAFF PRESENT: Melissa Doane, Charles Norburg and Virg= inia Oakes as note taker
PUBLIC PRESENT: Brian Wilcox, Minnie and Robert Rowell=
OPEN MEETING: Chairperson Hardesty opened meeting at <= st1:time Hour=3D"18" Minute=3D"40" w:st=3D"on">6:40 p.m.
REVIEW OF MINUTES: Frank Kearney motioned to accept mi= nutes of 1/22/09 as written. Sherri Dill seconded the motion. Motion carried.
CITIZENS REQUEST: Minnie and Robert Rowell regarding d= ry hydrant on High Point Place.
Minnie Rowell= : Well I did take all the criteria that Melissa was good enough to gather for= me and what I could get off the website of the Town to my Lawyer. The first th= ing he did ask me was, “how the criteria, the distance between the dry hydrant = came about, saying he couldn’t find anything concrete in the ordinance. He said = at best our ordinance is on the dry hydrants was very ambiguous. Also at the development had I approached the Board at the time to discuss what was expe= cted of us? Especially if it is not stated clear enough in the ordinance. Not af= ter the development had already been completed. Now taking this into hand, we w= ent out to the Ten Rd. to measure the distances between the hydrants. From the first dry hydrant to the end of the extension was one mile. When Mr. Wilcox extended out the Town asked him to put another hydrant there. From one dry hydrant to the other is 5/10 of a mile. It is also 5/10 of a mile from the newer development to the end. Now as far as High Point goes, there is a hyd= rant on Knapp’s Hill on 178. That is also 5/10 of a mile to High Point Road. From 178 to the dry hydrant on High Point is .4 from there to where they want to= put in the new dry hydrant is .4. Now it is of our opinion is we are covered as= far as the dry hydrant goes. So we don’t feel that the Town or the Rowells shou= ld have to pay for the dry hydrant because we are already covered by the dry hydrants that are there. Now if and when we decide to extend, if we ever wi= ll and probably not after the economy the way it is, extend the last part whic= h is the very last part, then we fell yes there should be a dry hydrant there. N= ow that is of our opinion and our lawyer’s.
Charles Norbu= rg: The idea of 1000 feet between dry hydrants has come about by the fire department, the Fire Chief. A truck normally carries 500 feet of hose. 500 = feet brings them half way to the next hydrant. That would cover the distance tha= t is my understanding of the 1000 feet.
Minnie Rowell= : There is definitely 1000 feet and is in my opinion on 178 they fill their trucks and it’s a ½ mile to High Point, when they go out and take the water from the dry hydrant it takes longer but this is in my opinion. As I said, I find it very ambiguous and I think maybe our Town ought to be more specific regarding these types of ordinances. It was never stated and our young fire chief and Robert never had a conversation about what size of the dry hydran= t to be put in. He never talk to him about that but that may have just been a misunderstanding because the young fire chief was there when Joel had the hydrant put on, the first one. Bob did all the work, used his backhoe, did = all the digging, and didn’t charge our Town anything. The young fire chief was there at the time. Bob can’t ever remember talking to him about the size of= the dry hydrant to be put in. I asked you yourself (Charles Norburg), you came = in when I was registering Bob’s truck, and I asked you what size did they use.= If I asked you that, why would have I asked you if I had already known what the size was.
Charles Norbu= rg: I also have a letter hear from Dean Bennett who couldn’t be here tonight. (= See attached letter).
Minnie Rowell= : We’re still set in whether we’re adequate enough at .4 from 178 and .4 to w= here the hydrant was supposed to be put in. We really feel that right now it’s sufficient because we are so close to the 178 fire hydrant. This is of our opinion. We’re not trying to screw our Town, we’ve lived here him 56 years = me 52. We just want to be very clear on this.
Melissa Doane= : Part of the approval was that there is a dry hydrant, so I feel for them to come back in now…
Minnie Rowell= : Where did it say that?
Melissa Doane= : When Dean made the motion for Title 30A Section4404 of the state subdivision law, that there would be adequate sufficient water criteria, municipal water and goes on and list all the criteria…
Minnie Rowell= : But what is municipal water and what is the criteria?
Melissa Doane= : The fire chief met with the Rowells.
Minnie Rowell= : The fire chief has never met with the Rowells.
Melissa Doane= : The fire chief was at the meeting of the final approval and put where the d= ry hydrant was to be placed. It was reflected in the minutes and I was at the meeting.
Minnie Rowell= : It said nothing about the dry hydrant…you know that and I know that.
Melissa Doane= : It did say, Oscar in the minutes of the April 26th when you were approved. Oscar said, during the preliminary approval there was a request o= f a dry hydrant on the final plan and he said so right here is the dry hydrant.= So there was discussion of the dry hydrant.
Minnie Rowell= : But there was no discussion of who would pay for the dry hydrant.
Melissa Doane= : A the last planning board meeting I attended, it was the Planning Board’s sta= nce was that the developer would pay for the hydrant.
Marty Jackson= : Who put in the first hydrant?
Melissa Doane= : A grant.
Robert Rowell= : The grant put the money up but I put it in, I did all the work, and didn’t charge the Town a cent.
Minnie Rowell= : My lawyer is right, this is extremely ambiguous and our town should get our ordinances to say, this is the criteria, this is who does the paying.
Frank Kearney= : That has been done recently and it’s being done.
Melissa Doane= : In the new subdivision ordinance that was adopted last year it specifically states. The one that you were approved under 1971 ordinance you are exactly right there is no specific guidelines and that’s Dean sited the Title 30A because he was not familiar with the ordinance
Minnie Rowell= : If they had said to us right from the beginning, this is how it is, you are pa= ying for this, and we would have found out the cost and set enough money aside f= or this. As it is we took every single penny we had to put into this project. This is a very unexpected expense. O= ther thing as I see it, now this is my opinion is the fact that everyone in town pays their taxes, these taxes include every single thing that goes to our f= ire department. We pay for our fire department through our taxes. I’m kind of seeing myself as double taxed but that’s a personal opinion.
Robert Rowell= : The Planning Board approved the plan on the plan it said nothing about a dry hydrant just the land for the dry hydrant.
Minnie Rowell= : So here we stand, we can allow this to be discussed further, but we just wanted you to know what we felt about it. And I do believe as far as the placement= of the dry hydrants are ok, they are close enough together our fire department= if they should need help.
Sherri Dill:<= /b> Where is the one that exists now?
Minnie Rowell= : It’s at the very end of the old cul de sac.
Sherri Dill:<= /b> And how far is it to the next hydrant?
Minnie Rowell= : 4/10 of a mile.
Sherri Dill: And on the Ten Road?
Minnie Rowell= : When Mr. Wilcox extended his subdivision it became a mile from the hydrant. When he put in the new project to the left, Pine Knoll, he put a hydrant th= ere. It is slightly more then 5/10 of a mile to the end of his development.
Sherri Dill:<= /b> So they have no distance consistency in the placing of their hydrant?
Melissa Doane= : Based on the fire chief’s recommendation is part of the approval. They asked him to go look at the site before you do the final approval.
Sherri Dill: I remember us saying it needed to be on there. Was the dry hydrant that’s in place now in place when the new subdivision came about and we asked for placement of the dry hydrant?
Minnie Rowell= : Yes.
Sherri Dill:<= /b> Somebody new in the planning stages how close they were.
Minnie Rowell= : I don’t think anybody ever addressed it before and I would have never thought about it if my lawyer hadn’t brought it up…what is the distance here what is the criteria on the distance between one dry hydrant to the next. There rea= lly should be criteria.
Frank Kearney= : There is now.
Minnie Rowell= : It should be written.
Marty Jackson= : The hydrant that’s there now was to covers from there to 178. Right now it’s middle of the way from the end of the new one?
Minnie Rowell= : Yes.
Melissa Doane= : But it was part of the approval of the plan that a dry hydrant be placed. Y= our approval was that a dry hydrant be placed. For you to look back at it, why = do you say you want to have the fire chief look at it if you’re going to then = go back and say…
Minnie Rowell= : I don’t think our fire chief realized or anyone did about this. If one is .5 = and one is .4 what is the difference, there should be a distinguished differenc= e. That is common sense.
Robert Rowell= : It said nothing on the plan about who was going to put it in.
Charles Norbu= rg: It’s like everything else; the burden is on the developer.
Melissa Doane= : Dean quoted the law in the State of Maine.
Linda Hardest= y: What does that say?
Melissa Doane= : (Read State Law) Chief Gifford made the recommendations, it would be wonder= ful if he were here to justify why he made those recommendations. I don’t know = why.
Minnie Rowell= : I think what we’re asking is why should one development have .5 and be perfec= tly clear and the other development have .4 and have to put in another one. Tha= t’s our main concern.
Brian Wilcox<= /b>: I think you have missed one of our hydrants out there. We have 3.
Minnie Rowell= : Where is the 3rd one?
Brian Wilcox:= Just this side of Matt Degrasse’s and a= bout 1000 feet back there’s one and there is another one up by what is called the Champion Line.
Frank Kearney= : There are three on the Ten Road.
Minnie Rowell= : I am sorry Brian, I didn’t see it. If there are 3, they are covered.
Frank Kearney= : After your original approval here, I can honestly say that had I not known anything else about it, it discusses a road, it discusses drainage, it discusses several other things there all there too, not just a place for th= em but you also built them as part of the subdivision. I don’t think any reasonable person would look at this and not assume that it wasn’t complete= d as discussed.
Minnie Rowell= : If someone had said to us from the very beginning the cost of the dry hydrant = is our expense, we wouldn’t question that.
Robert Rowell= : We didn’t think about it because the first time the Town took care of it. I ha= ve as much money in the first hydrant as the Town has, more money.
Sherri Dill: We assumed that on the map was where the dry hydrant would be placed:
Millie Rowell= : We assumed that we gave the land for the dry hydrant to be placed. All the around there was misconception.=
Melissa Doane= : In the new subdivision law he have tried to ensure that everything is done rig= ht. We have an administrative check list, the developer comes in and present the plan to Charles they go over and explain the fees, what is this and this and this. In the past you’ve come in and asked the Planning Board what you’re thinking, then you have to come back and back again and we’re really trying= to eliminate that. It is a checklist and it took 3 years to get to that point = and the check list still isn’t perfected but it’s in the works. Every time we l= ook at it, I’ll say we should add on other simple things like the developer is responsible for the postage when we have to notify the abutters. Simple thi= ngs like that.
Minnie Rowell= : That’s great.
Sherri Dill: Were you guys here for all, I know Oscar did a lot of the presenting, were you h= ere for all the meetings? I’m wondering if maybe something was said that maybe Oscar would forget to say something.
Minnie Rowell= : No we weren’t her for all the meetings.
Sherri Dill: Maybe he was here at a meeting and something was discussed in regards to th= at dry hydrant, maybe something was said to him that wasn’t relayed to you.
Minnie Rowell= : If we had known the responsibility we wouldn’t be here.
Sherri Dill: Maybe when something was discussed, Oscar is not going to come back to you = and say verbatim what was said. Maybe that’s where the miscommunication was.
Frank Kearney= : Is there a way, of course we want you to comply with what the original plan, can we put a time frame to say a year f= orm now or even this coming construction year to comply or are we locked in?
Charles Norbu= rg: Your duty here is to determine what do you feel was meant at that meeting a= nd what was your intent, your interpretation. Anything beyond that is Town Councils responsibility.
Linda Hardest= y: Does everyone have all the information they need?
Charles Norbu= rg: You have heard the understanding of the Board. Is there anything further you want from the Board?
Minnie Rowell= : No, all I want to know is the Board all in agreement that the developer has= to pay for it. If this is the feeling of the Board then we have to pay for it.= I still think in the future it had better be real clear, just don’t expect th= at somebody is going to pay for something if it’s not on paper.
Charles Norbu= rg: I think for the record we should show that the Board is in agreement on thi= s, by a show of hands.
Linda Hardest= y: Ok, according to what has been in the minutes, what was voted on, according to = what Dean had quoted, and the location that was placed on the map, I was the assumption of the Planning Board that that is where the dry hydrant was supposed to be. We never assumed the Town would put it in. Does everyone ag= ree with that? (Planning Board agreed unanimously) Now any further discussion of whatever h= as to be done goes to the Town Council. They have the power.
NEW BUSINESS: None
UNFINISHED BUSINESS: None
NEXT MEETING: April 16, 2009 @ 6:30
ADJOURN: Motion to adjourn at 7:30.